On this episode of Davood For Thought, Kathleen Webb joins us to share her input on emerging trends, adapting and adopting, and the importance of “why”. Kathleen is an experienced public sector leader with a demonstrated history of working in the California State Government. She highlights how leadership styles may change throughout your career along with tips to forming a committed and driven team. Listen closely as she dives into what helps recharge her battery, and where to keep up what she's working on currently.
00;00;00;00 - 00;00;22;24
Narrator
We're in an era of rapid change where resilience is vital. The Davood for Thought podcast dives into the most important topics in government and technology today. Our host, Davood Ghods, sits down with his vast network of colleagues to dish on the tech challenges that affect us all. Follow this podcast on your favorite platform and join the conversation by sharing it on LinkedIn, Twitter or Facebook.
00;00;22;26 - 00;00;55;06
Davood Ghods
Hello, everyone. Welcome to Direct Technology's Davood for Thought podcast. I'm Davood Ghods and I will be your host today. The way I stay up with the pressing topics of tech and government of today is to tap into the panel of experts I've had the honor of connecting with over the years. Today we have Kathleen Webb on the podcast working under the leadership of the state Controller, Betty.
00;00;55;08 - 00;01;30;02
Davood Ghods
Kathleen is currently the chief operating officer of California State Comptroller's Office for the sixth largest economy in the world. In this role, Kathleen is responsible for the day to day operation of the department's divisions. Prior to CEO, she was the chief deputy director for California Department of Motor Vehicles from 2019 to 2021. Assistant Secretary for Government Operations Agency from 2015 to 2019.
00;01;30;04 - 00;02;06;06
Davood Ghods
And Chief Risk Officer for Compliance and Ethics at California Public Employees Retirement System 2012. The 2014. She has held many other roles at departments such as California Correctional, Health Care Services, Department of General Services, and other public and private sector organizations. And she has a political science degree from UC Berkeley. Kathleen, it's an honor to have you with us today to share your insights with our listeners. I went over some of your background, but not all. Would you please tell us more about what you have done and what are some of the things you're currently working on? Welcome.
00;02;06;09 - 00;02;44;25
Kathleen Webb
Thank you, Davood. It's a pleasure to be with you today and look forward to our discussion and thank you for that fabulous introduction. You know, as you were going over the the kind of list of things that I've done, I you know, the resumé certainly reflects what I refer to as my career lattice that I've been able to enjoy and and you know, what also probably doesn't reflect is also the work that I've done outside of government which includes working with the Girl
00;02;44;25 - 00;03;06;19
Kathleen Webb
Scouts. Actually enjoyed that job with serves as the big Girl Scout council and then working for State Farm Insurance in a number of different capacities. Before I became appointed as Governor Schwarzenegger's insurance advisor. And the reality is, when I came in into that role from a public service standpoint, I think I found probably my true purpose and passion in public service.
00;03;06;19 - 00;03;26;21
Kathleen Webb
And then I've stayed in public service ever since. And certainly well, I think my career path reflects a path of service as a change agent. I've really come to to kind of see what I bring to the table. And I like to consider myself as an interventionist, kind of collaborating with both my team and stakeholders. They become kind of the next best version of ourselves.
00;03;26;21 - 00;03;46;21
Kathleen Webb
And I think the what motivates me and I think it comes back from even kind of my own youth experiences is I was an athlete and I had the great opportunity to be a college athlete. But to achieve that level of excellence in sports really requires you to practice and look at ways to improve what you're doing and how you're doing it.
00;03;46;21 - 00;04;11;18
Kathleen Webb
And I think that's just a part of who I am today is always looking at that opportunity to improve and become that next best version of myself. And I take that into whatever organization I'm affiliated with. And so today, now with the state controller is a name or weeks into my position here, I'm working with all of my divisions to support and advance their modernization offer.
00;04;11;23 - 00;04;34;03
Kathleen Webb
But I'm doing it also by bringing in a fresh lens and an offering, maybe some thoughts or asking some questions to really understand why we're doing the things we're doing and what we hope to be the results or the outcomes of what we're doing. So probably one of the most critical areas that I'm going to be involved with is my sponsorship role and work to implement what I refer to as the last mile of fiscal.
00;04;34;05 - 00;04;55;06
Kathleen Webb
I think over the years many people know about this, how many folks are involved with this goal. And it's been a labor of of of love. Maybe for some a labor of hard work for others. But we're really nearing the end and I refer to as the last mile. But it will require us in that last mile to really address the changing workforce needs.
00;04;55;06 - 00;05;13;10
Kathleen Webb
I think what we need to anticipate is work is going to be done differently. Skills and competencies may be different that we need to recruit for or upskill for. Processes are going to change. How we do the work is going to change. And obviously there is the whole digital technology aspect of how we're going to do the work.
00;05;13;10 - 00;05;38;04
Kathleen Webb
And so one of the things I'll be working on doing here in my role at State Comptroller's office is building what I call a robust roadmap for success. The that and the level of activities that we're going to have to be engaged with to achieve that last mile. So that's a kind of bit of in a nutshell, Davood, of where I am, what I've done and what I'm doing around sharing those.
00;05;38;07 - 00;06;04;03
Davood Ghods
We need innovation like you in the state of California, and I'm glad you at the Home Baking Festival through its last mile. You mentioned that you were a college athlete. We have a term at the rec technology called Business Athletes that we try to be the best in what we do also and improve all the time. So thank you for sharing those insights and best of luck to you.
00;06;04;06 - 00;06;29;14
Davood Ghods
And we'd be happy to be there as a partnership between public and private sector to assist any way we can. Kathleen, what emerging trends are you seeing in the I.T. and business fields that we should all be paying more attention to these days?
00;06;29;14 - 00;06;59;00
Kathleen Webb
You know, that's a great question and it's something certainly I've had conversations with people about while I was at DMV and certainly here, too. But, you know, Davood, I think about when you and I were first met and we're working together when you were here with the state, I think it's something that we are constantly scanning the environment and trying to become, I think, more proactive in what we're seeing as we scan the environment. But let me share a couple thoughts that that I think we need to get better at and what we need to anticipate is emerging trends, and that is we need to continuously scan the environment environments on a regular basis.
00;06;59;00 - 00;07;27;19
Kathleen Webb
And I'm going to plead with every department to really increase their enterprise risk management capacity. I think change is happening. Change will always happen. The speed of change is continue to increase around us in so many different ways, whether it's, you know, triggered by human events, by economic events or by catastrophic events. We just need to learn how to better scan that horizon, anticipate those changes, and then plan for those changes.
00;07;27;22 - 00;08;00;20
Kathleen Webb
But immediately, right now, I think COVID and what we've learned through COVID has really forced government operations in particular to really step back and consider how do we expand our digital footprint, how do we increase our capability of delivering our services through digital channels. And I know at the DMV, we were looking at a variety of ways of of doing that, not only maybe through online service channels, but looking at our kiosks that we have as a service channel, the call center, as a service channel.
00;08;00;20 - 00;08;23;07
Kathleen Webb
Our field office is still as a service channel. Obviously, we want to go ahead and improve and move people, more people to the digital footprint. But the reality is when you think about the state of California, the diversity state of California, we still have folks that are unbanked. We still have folks that really do need to come into a field location to handle their transactions through our field office.
00;08;23;07 - 00;08;44;19
Kathleen Webb
But the question is, what is that number of people that need service that way? Where do those folks live and where are their communities? And can we be more strategic in how we serve those folks, knowing that that just reflects the reality of the diversity of our community? I think in saying that and what goes with that is rethinking our offices of the future.
00;08;44;22 - 00;09;06;09
Kathleen Webb
I think we all have have looked at how even here in Sacramento, how offices have emptied out. And the question is, do we need to lease or own as much space as we have right now? And do our offices look different going into the future? And so I think it's a great conversation. I know DGS is involved with really looking at and working with departments and certainly at the DMV.
00;09;06;09 - 00;09;30;06
Kathleen Webb
We brought in a company called OC that really helped us shape what the future of DMV offices look like, even to thinking about, I would call kind of express offices, you know, was I always toyed with is the idea of why couldn't we light some of those banks and credit unions be at the front of a grocery store and be able to service people through that space configuration?
00;09;30;06 - 00;09;48;08
Kathleen Webb
So there's a lot of different ways to think about, you know, what is your mission and what are the different ways that you can serve your customers and fulfill that mission? I think the other reality we have is the changing models of work. I think we've talked about them as being office centered, remote centered teller work. But what does that really mean?
00;09;48;11 - 00;10;15;07
Kathleen Webb
How do we make sure that we're still able to deliver our results that we are responsible for, for the people of California in these changing models of work? And then along with those changing models, is, I would call the changing nature of work. And when I talk about that, it's really about what are those skills, knowledge and competencies that we need here based on how also the different models of work are changing, The tools that we use are changing.
00;10;15;10 - 00;10;36;19
Kathleen Webb
And really maybe as we move away from being more transactional, be more analytical. What are those skills we need to be hiring for? And then I think following that, and this is really an area that I think a lot of folks are having conversations both in the private sector, nonprofit and public sector. Is residual culture to still foster teamwork?
00;10;36;22 - 00;11;02;04
Kathleen Webb
How do we make sure that we're still working together as a team, have those relationships be able to build relationships? And I think, Davood, one of the things you and I enjoyed kind of before the COVID is the ability to form and foster our relationships and the importance of those relationships and being able to pick up the phone and call somebody to maybe work through some problem solving that you need to do together or just a sounding board.
00;11;02;06 - 00;11;21;26
Kathleen Webb
You know, as you think about some of the problems you're working through and how best to approach and solve those problems. And that's really going to be interesting because I think as we all hop on, you know, to Zoom calls, what you don't have any more is those pre-meeting conversations where people get to the room early or after the meeting is over.
00;11;21;26 - 00;11;47;11
Davood Ghods
And having those conversations after the meeting or even meeting in a lunchroom or meeting in a breakroom, the water cooler conversations, all of those just don't exist the way they used to, to really foster and build relationships. Yes, those are great insights that you shared, Kathleen. And each of those could be a podcast or a seminar, right? So, yes, we could.
00;11;47;13 - 00;12;23;14
Davood Ghods
Yeah. But the one that I want to pick on and it's a great lead into my next question is the comment you made about scanning the environment on a continuous basis and having an enterprise risk management strategy. So the question is, and I think you would agree that adjusting to the pandemic was challenging for almost all organizations, and now everyone is thinking of what the next major disruption like the pandemic is going to be and how can we be better prepared for it.
00;12;23;17 - 00;12;49;09
Davood Ghods
So resiliency is a big topic of conversation these days. We have the technology even offer resilience as a service. What are some examples of resilience? And as you've seen in the past year, and what is the one thing organizations should be doing to improve resilience? I think you've answered some of this.
00;12;49;09 - 00;13;10;26
Kathleen Webb
Yeah. So let me start off by giving a shout out to the public servants of California. I think I've come to admire that. I think our workforce is a resilient workforce. I think we are. I mean, here's what I would tell you. We don't have a choice. There are some functions that we perform based on our missions that can never stop. You know, example would be here at the state comptroller's office. We have to issue warrants.
00;13;10;26 - 00;13;32;29
Kathleen Webb
People are dependent on those warrants. There are just some things that can't fail. And so I think one of the things I'll and I think about Callaway is, you know, they have to be ready to go. And I think about public health. They have to be ready to go. So when I think about some of our essential workforces, we've now referred to them with the pandemic.
00;13;33;02 - 00;13;55;00
Kathleen Webb
We are resilient and we've learned to adapt and adapt and prioritize is there is their ability to do it better and to improve how we do it. I think obviously there's been some great lessons learned through the pandemic. And I would always tell you after, you know, every event, we should, you know, debrief and most organizations do, and really take those lessons learned and think about how we could do it better.
00;13;55;03 - 00;14;36;14
Kathleen Webb
But I think one things I would emphasize is the importance of really investing in, again, our enterprise risk management programs, our governance risk and compliance programs. I think, you know, whooping and for all those that were part of, you know, the initial efforts to develop coupon card, you know, that shouldn't be a checklist anymore. We really should be paying attention to, you know, what are those potential events or as you and I talked about before, what are those black swans out there that we need to be scanning the environment, really anticipating the possibility of that happening and how prepared we are to respond to those things, both at our departments and then collectively as a
00;14;36;14 - 00;14;56;29
Kathleen Webb
state. But I think, you know, at the end of the day, I think this event and I think ongoing events remind us the importance for our ability to be nimble, agile, adaptive, and then to adapt to those changes as quickly as we can. Otherwise, you know, my concern is we won't be able to fill that will fulfill those important missions.
00;14;56;29 - 00;15;30;10
Kathleen Webb
Or if we don't learn how to adapt and adapt, do we become do we become less relevant and less important to the people we serve? And will somebody else step in behind us to fill that need if we can't be adaptive and adaptive to that?
00;15;30;10 - 00;15;57;29
Davood Ghods
Exactly. Appreciate the insights there. Changing direction a little bit on you. Here at Direct Technology, we always talk about how we are going to get the project done, Why are we doing what we are doing? And the question is what is your why? What motivates you? In other words, in your work?
00;15;58;01 - 00;16;16;29
Kathleen Webb
You know, that's I love that topic and I think you've probably followed some of the things I've done. But one of the leadership presentations I've done for a number of organizations is really talking about the importance of why. And one of the most recent ones I did was leadership really through the power of why and how that's so transformational. But I would say from my what I've learned over the years and I always remind people is, you know, your why can change and and and it could change over periods of time. I always remind people my why when I got out of college was, you know, just getting a job so I could pay my college debt. You know, it wasn't too complicated.
00;16;17;01 - 00;16;42;01
Kathleen Webb
But, you know, as as I've had my career ladders, I've experienced some great opportunities. I think where I'm at right now is the ability to individually and then collaboratively make government better as a leader. But in that leadership, it's my commitment to developing and inspiring our workforce to deliver the great results. It's not just about me, it's about how do we create that workforce?
00;16;42;01 - 00;17;01;04
Kathleen Webb
And then that succession plan of people that can carry on the good work of the state of California to make government better for those that we serve. So I would tell you that Y has really been really important in both my choices and my decisions and a big reason why I also came here to the state comptroller's office.
00;17;01;07 - 00;17;30;27
Davood Ghods
Excellent. Making government better than you found it. That's fantastic. On inspiration and innovation and what inspires innovation on the different teams that you've had. You've been at the MBA, you've been at Davos, you're now the CEO. How do you inspire your team to be innovative with innovation on this?
00;17;31;00 - 00;17;57;19
Kathleen Webb
Yeah, you know, great question. Lessons learned over the years of trying different things. But I think what I really landed on is that commitment first begins with a clear understanding of the why and what I want I share that to be. I think one of the things I have found in my travels through state government is how many folks at the rank and file level are not connected to the Y, and if they're not connected to the Y, then the work just feels like they're grinding through something.
00;17;57;20 - 00;18;29;28
Kathleen
Right. You know, this is when you know your y your what does have more meaning and you're committed to then improving upon the what and when. You are committed to improving upon the what, you really open up the space for people to think about how to make it better. And then, you know, one of the is I would tell you about space, particularly in government, and it's really been kind of interesting to learn about this fear that I find in some departments of challenging the status quo.
00;18;30;00 - 00;18;57;13
Kathleen Webb
But as a leader, you got to create a safe space to explore and experiment with different ways to make government better. But I also say you don't think about doing what you're going to do so you can fail fast and fail small, as they would say, and then become what you've learned. But as a leader, you need to lead and you need to ensure that you're creating that safe space for folks to really be unleashed. You know, unleash that potential to be a better version and create that space for them to to have successes, but equally to learn from their failures. What's excellent, You need to give them the room to fail, but fail small and fail fast.
00;18;57;13 - 00;19;25;01
Davood Ghods
Kathleen, what is something that would surprise people about your background or interests?
00;19;25;04 - 00;19;42;26
Kathleen Webb
Yeah. So. Um. Hmm. I have a lot of hobbies and I think the hobby people probably would not be surprised if we all have a diversity of hobbies. I love music, I love playing music. I love sports. Obviously there was an athlete and I played sports and I still play golf today. I loved wine and wine tasting. I love the art and science between wine.
00;19;42;26 - 00;20;02;10
Kathleen Webb
I love arts in all its great forms. But I would say probably one things that would surprise people is I'm a food Channel junkie now. One of my favorite shows is Chopped. So there you go. And I love the challenge maybe associated with Chopped where sometimes I feel like it's I was talking to just one of my leadership team members.
00;20;02;12 - 00;20;19;13
Kathleen Webb
Chopped sometimes feels like a day in state government is you never know what you're going to get in the basket. You open, but you got to make something out of it. That's what I see.
00;20;19;13 - 00;20;50;00
Davood Ghods
Yeah, that's very true of And I'm glad that you talked about food. We have a lot of foodies on our team to do that. I love to hear your comments. Where can you find one that will? Do people support your work? Kathleen Then you talk about some of your volunteerism work here.
00;20;50;00 - 00;21;16;27
Kathleen Webb
Yeah. So from a volunteerism standpoint, you know, obviously I still stay involved. The Girl Scouts and various other positions that are supportive of youth. But what I think where my focus has been is also working with the state of California and developing our future leaders. And so I would say one late in as obviously a source where you can follow me, I'm not going to say that I'm an active LinkedIn person, but you can certainly get a hold of me and follow me on LinkedIn. But in supporting the work that's really important to me and building that next generation of leaders, you can follow me through a program that I partnered with Becca Christensen on, and it's the California Innovation Playbook for Government Change agents.
00;21;17;00 - 00;21;41;17
Kathleen Webb
I still serve as an executive sponsor for that program. We are just right now preparing the next cohort. It's a fabulous program. It was really kind of developed when I recognized that we had a gap in in developing what I call innovations. We had a lot of leadership programs, but we didn't really have a way to capture and harness.
00;21;41;17 - 00;22;11;17
Kathleen Webb
I think the innovation energy that existed in a lot of departments. And so it's also been a great place for people of like mind and like heart to come together and network together and really think about solutions at a statewide level for for all of us as we build and make government better. The other thing I would say that you would support by participation in it is I had the great opportunity to be the architect of the California Lean Academy in the California Leadership Academy while I was at the Gov jobs agency.
00;22;11;17 - 00;22;40;12
Kathleen Webb
And to me those are such important programs in developing our staff become problem solvers through the Lean Academy. And the Leadership Academy is really focused on developing our leaders of today and tomorrow and encourage you to check in to those programs and participate in those programs or learn about those programs.
00;22;40;15 - 00;23;03;11
Davood Ghods
That's great. You've been very active in developing future leaders in state of California, and I commend you for that. Thank you so much for joining us today. Kathleen. Thank you to all the listeners out there for joining us as well. We will see you in the next episode of the of Food for Thought, where we will shed more light on the human side of tech.