Navigating Digital Safety: Courtney Gregoire

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Narrator

At a crossroads of uncertainty and opportunity. How do you navigate forward? This podcast focuses on making smart choices in a rapidly changing world. We investigate the challenges of being at a crossroads and finding the opportunities that arise out of disruption. Listen in on future forward conversations with the brightest luminaries, movers and shakers. Let's navigate forward together and create what's next.

00;00;25;25 - 00;00;53;24

Lisa Thee

Hello everyone. Welcome to the Navigating for podcast. My name is Lisa Thee and I'll be your host today. I love collecting experts, the brightest luminaries and visionaries and impactful folks in their fields. And today I have one of those amazing people for you. Please welcome Courtney Gregoire. Courtney is the chief digital safety officer at Microsoft Corporation. She has also served as the commissioner of the Port of Seattle and the deputy chief of staff for the U.S. Department of Commerce.

00;00;53;26 - 00;01;14;17

Lisa Thee

She's somebody I always respected, admire in the areas of online safety and policy. And I look forward to her sharing some of her wisdom with you today. Welcome to our podcast today, Courtney. Hey, thanks, Lisa. Thanks for having me. So can you tell us a little bit about your background and where you're from and maybe how that influences what you do today?

00;01;14;19 - 00;01;39;17

Courtney Gregoire

Sure. You know, it's interesting. So I grew up in Washington State, in Olympia, and I've got to admit that sometime early on I knew that there would be a pursuit of law. It's probably really most influenced by both of my parents who were public servants. And I knew I wanted to find a career of public service. I defined that early on as government service.

00;01;39;17 - 00;02;06;28

Courtney Gregoire

And I do think how meaningful and important that has been in my career. I think my journey, particularly in the last decade, is to acknowledge the field of public service in this new connected world means there are probably times that the private sector needs to be stepping in and thinking with the public mindset, working closely with the public sector that we think of in government, and that there is a way to make a meaningful contribution across across the ecosystem.

00;02;06;28 - 00;02;31;26

Courtney Gregoire

So my career path took me from college over to law school, working in D.C. for nearly a decade at multiple different places in government. I was honored to serve as President Obama's director of the National Export Initiative and eventually bringing that back home here to Washington State and serving at Microsoft and now as the chief digital safety officer for Microsoft.

00;02;32;03 - 00;02;59;06

Courtney Gregoire

I get to leverage some of those experiences across prior government service of what I learned in working in the U.S. Senate. And then that legal background helps really tackle what is now a multidisciplinary field. So you really get to live that concept of shared value at the intersection of public and private partnerships to tackle social impact issues that need to be looked at from a more holistic point of view.

00;02;59;08 - 00;03;30;02

Courtney Gregoire

Yeah, that's really well said, Lisa. I think I often describe my job as we're looking at whole of society problems when we're talking about digital safety and that is it's a whole society problem that needs a whole of society solution. And so bringing people together that have unique backgrounds to really instill that multidisciplinary approach is important. Agreed.  

00;03;30;03 - 00;03;49;04

Lisa Thee

So digital safety is a pretty broad term for somebody that doesn't know anything about the areas of trust and safety and big tech. Can you give an overview of what that entails and that maybe somebody that doesn't work in that field would understand?  

00;03;49;06 - 00;04;17;27

Courtney Gregoire

Sure. Lisa, one point you asked me to tell this so that my grandmother would understand. My grandmother, who's turning 100 in June, and I have not accomplished that in my years of service in this role. So let me try. You know, honestly, if we think about the concept of digital safety, I think of it as really how do we expect our tech platforms to act responsibly? We really all acknowledge the role technology plays in our lives. It is ubiquitous. It is how we connect with family and friends. It plays a huge role in our career, in our economy, in society, relationships, in culture.

00;04;18;00 - 00;04;45;04

Courtney Gregoire

It particularly as we reflect on the last year plus in this COVID 19 area era, the integration of technology in life and humanity is so deep. And so when you think of the concept of digital safety, oftentimes folks are thinking maybe I call it the superficial level. You know, you have to think about how you tackle those real challenges of illegal content being disseminated through platforms, cybercrime.

00;04;45;06 - 00;05;11;18

Courtney Gregoire

But, you know, we try to think of digital safety holistically. How are you creating safe, responsible online environments? Really, to be perfectly frank, to live up to the Microsoft mission. And the Microsoft mission is empower every individual and organization in the world to do more. If they individual or an organization is concerned about their personal safety, the safety of the network, then that really hampers that ability.

00;05;11;18 - 00;05;45;25

Courtney Gregoire

But it doesn't start with a concept of moderate. It's got to start with the concept of how do we make technology live up to its promise of unlocking potential, of unlocking opportunity, of unlocking innovation and taking down those barriers of safety that inhibit that. You know, that's a great point. And I think that oftentimes safety and privacy are pitted against each other as though it's a zero sum game and not an equilibrium and a balance that needs to be achieved.

00;05;45;27 - 00;06;09;03

Lisa Thee

Do you mind talking a little bit about some of the emerging trends you're seeing in your field that you think we should all be paying more attention to?  

00;06;09;06 - 00;06;49;03

Courtney Gregoire

Yeah, you know, it's it's it's interesting. So there's there's a lot of reflection right now because the concept of content moderation as as the heart of digital safety oftentimes are trust and safety practices by platforms. It's really been thrust front and center in the last year. And that raises a host of questions, as you just articulated from our perspective, we really need to start having an open and honest dialog across across all of society about what is the principled approach to addressing harmful and illegal content and conduct on platforms. First, for us as any tech company, it you root it in the terms of service, the code of conduct, the boundaries that a platform puts out there as to what content and contact is appropriate on their services.

00;06;49;05 - 00;07;19;14

Courtney Gregoire

And those rules should and need to differ by the various products and services that we use A product that is designed for children to come together in a certain environment certainly has a heightened responsibility when it comes to safety practices. But how you use your email or a file storage that you think of as a private environment, that is a different situation and a different host of considerations.

00;07;19;16 - 00;07;52;23

Courtney Gregoire

So, you know, what we acknowledge, I think is around the globe, regulators are are wrestling with this and it's difficult to come up with the right answers. What's a challenge right now is when you have governments around the world outlining a privacy framework as one body of laws and then a separate regulatory model for what one would say is digital safety, digital services, and failing to spend the time understanding how that conflict of laws is going to resolve itself.

00;07;52;25 - 00;08;23;29

Courtney Gregoire

I think right now you've got platforms trying to navigate those waters, trying to navigate those waters responsibly when we really need those government leaders to understand, let's have the healthy discussion and debate. Let's have the conversation about what harms we're trying to address. What is the role of governance in tech platforms in in this new era? What is the purview of a digital safety officer of a company?

00;08;23;29 - 00;08;53;20

Courtney Gregoire

What types of situation opens? Are you often called in to weigh in on from your seat? Yeah, you know, it really does. I mean, just like the spirit I just acknowledged to you, it needs to vary across companies. For us at Microsoft, we have been laser focused on addressing two of the biggest challenges and that is child sexual exploitation and abuse imagery on the Internet, as well as the challenge of terrorist and violent extremist content.

00;08;53;22 - 00;09;21;10

Courtney Gregoire

I you know, Lisa, I know how much you have committed your life to thinking about child safety, but it is both of those areas require a kind of acknowledging this is not a good space. Microsoft was really, really a leader in contributing a critical technology called photo DNA to the ecosystem that enables tech platforms to detect known child sexual exploitation and abuse imagery.

00;09;21;12 - 00;09;44;22

Courtney Gregoire

And I think the world, if they understand that, say that is a tool that we need to use and everyone should be getting that that that information out there. What I think is a challenge is acknowledging the threat vector for children has evolved over time and how do we continue as a society to respond to that with all the resources that are necessary?

00;09;44;25 - 00;10;09;18

Courtney Gregoire

I would say one of those challenges is making sure we acknowledge the role, the critical role that government has to play in maintaining the safety for children and the frameworks that support that. That law enforcement, which is a separate and distinct role in prosecuting those that are harming children. And then what tech platforms can do to set the boundaries of what is appropriate and not appropriate on their services.

00;10;09;20 - 00;10;36;28

Courtney Gregoire

All of those need to happen if we're going to address this issue. I think, honestly, we've got to be more transparent about the scope of the problem. 69.1 million images and videos reported to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children in the calendar year 2019 69.1 million. And that we really need to acknowledge when I say images and videos, it fails to admit what it is.

00;10;36;28 - 00;11;04;21

Courtney Gregoire

It's a crime scene photo that changes the course of the life of the child. And we have to acknowledge age, the scale and the scope of the challenge. And at the end of the day, we also have to acknowledge the human impact of this work. When I say that platforms like ours want to lean in and to ensure that we have the tools and the processes to detect and appropriately report this content across our services.

00;11;04;24 - 00;11;27;22

Courtney Gregoire

That means there's a team at Microsoft looking and reviewing this content, and the human impact is really something to keep a top of mind. It's something that governments need to think about when they say Go solve the world's problems and don't lean in sufficiently to get at the root of the challenge because we have to acknowledge the human impact.

00;11;27;24 - 00;11;58;29

Courtney Gregoire

Serious trauma is real and working in fields where you're looking at some of the most challenging content on the Internet, on a routine and regular basis, and being exposed to victims and victims stories has to be factored in to how we address this issue. But from a legal perspective, it's incredibly important that humans are involved in the loop, right, to ensure that chain of custody is in place so that you can prosecute people that really do need to be addressed in our society that are committing crimes.

00;11;59;00 - 00;12;41;06

Courtney Gregoire

Right now, we I mean, we hold ourselves to a pretty high standard. We want to make sure about the decisions we make when we're enforcing Microsoft's terms of service in our code of conduct. And so Human Review is really a critical, important element. And as you look at the U.S. legal structure here, we are still learning how and our prosecutors and our judges are learning how detection on technology is concrete evidence of child sexual exploitation and abuse imagery they still traditionally want to understand where did a human make a determination?

00;12;41;09 - 00;13;01;12

Courtney Gregoire

And that's important. And that is absolutely a part of the ecosystem. I think one of those improvements we can continue to have is having everyone better understand what role technology plays and where we can get clearer on those issues. I think that's a great point. And we also have to acknowledge that technology as a platform is often neutral.

00;13;01;12 - 00;13;33;15

Courtney Gregoire

It's not having the intent to spread malicious content, but it is a great connector. And so it does in the same ways it allows us to build positive communities. It also can have a hand in building nefarious communities that get better at doing what they're intending to do. That's illegal. And so there's a push pull here of the technology side of how is it being used to scale that behavior, and then how is it being used to bring light to dark places and ensure that we are able to identify this kind of behavior and and address it in the real world?

00;13;33;15 - 00;14;00;25

Lisa Thee

Right. Very, very well said. And I think as I leaned into earlier, you know, I'm very proud of the contributions Microsoft has made in this, very proud of how we responsibly handle this. But we do have to acknowledge that those that are intending to cause harm continue to evolve Their tactics. And so that is the reality for us and needs to be the reality that we all acknowledge.

00;14;00;27 - 00;14;26;27

Lisa Thee

I think I'd be quoting something you've heard before, but anything that could be used as a tool can be weaponized. And that's the that's the challenge. Yeah, I certainly didn't envision earlier in my career when I came out of college and was forecasting the cellular market that one day we would be putting a device in the pockets of every ten year old on the planet that has the capacity to be weaponized against the child.

00;14;27;00 - 00;14;48;03

Lisa Thee

I don't think any of us saw that coming around the corners 15, 20 years ago. And so it's important that we all stay up on the trends of the ethics of the technology that we're bringing into the bringing in and helping to educate government as the tech leaders on what the implications are and evolving laws to reflect that.

00;14;48;05 - 00;15;12;08

Courtney Gregoire

Liza, you've just hit something that I think is really fascinating and is as a healthy discussion going on right now. But how has. Have we as a society and then as a result, let's be honest, has government regulation kept up with the changes in technology? And so we talk about that all the time. But if you think about the safety field, I think there's some thought leadership out there right now that helps put this in context.

00;15;12;08 - 00;15;35;26

Courtney Gregoire

You go back to 15 years ago and we thought about technology as that capacity to have people express themselves and there really was not a discussion about the harm side. Let's just be perfectly clear. And there was not an understanding about how ubiquitous it could become. And so you see a regulatory framework that sometimes is rooted in the rights, the rights of the individual to express themselves and technology.

00;15;35;27 - 00;16;00;10

Courtney Gregoire

Is this great leveling the playing field to enable more voices, an opportunity to get out there on the platform and even maybe a rights check on media control of the regulatory model that came out of that. You'd often hear that rooted in Section 230 in the US or the European, the e Commerce Directive that did not acknowledge where we are today.

00;16;00;11 - 00;16;23;09

Courtney Gregoire

Maybe that second phase we've seen is an acknowledgment about some public health harms of technology, but I think we've even moved beyond that phase. And if I give you the public health harms, it started becoming a discussion of okay, we acknowledge child sexual exploitation, abuse, we acknowledge the challenge of terrorist content, we acknowledge there might be addictive qualities about some of this technology.

00;16;23;16 - 00;16;59;16

Courtney Gregoire

We're going to try to moderate it or government regulate it from a is the better word, from a public health lens. I think we're moving to a different era that says, okay, these platforms have a huge role in our in our lives. They set their own rules. Some of which we clearly understand, some of which consumers don't. So how do we move to an era of, honestly, transparency, legitimacy, process that acknowledges the role technology plays in the ubiquitous the acknowledgment we're all talking about that there are incredible possibilities for what this could do in the good in the world.

00;16;59;18 - 00;17;31;24

Courtney Gregoire

And how do you tackle some of these harms. But this new kind of new era, I think is a healthy discussion we're starting to have where just regulating one content area is not sufficient to think about creating healthy online environments and interactions. Absolutely. It really needs to be a holistic risk mitigation strategy, right? Not a series of individual things that you hope adds up to a positive outcome.

00;17;31;27 - 00;17;56;21

Courtney Gregoire

If you build them all, you probably should hire a couple of security guards to make sure the mall that you've just built is under control. And I think that, you know, times have evolved since 1996 when the Communication Decency Act 230 was first established that set the precedents that platforms were not accountable for what a third party user would put on those platforms.

00;17;56;21 - 00;18;37;05

Courtney Gregoire

And I think we've learned over time, as you mentioned, that we've had evolutions in threat vectors that have much broader impacts that maybe were originally perceived, especially what the ubiquitous nature of technology. In fact, I've heard there's more people that tune into YouTube every year than there are followers of some of the largest world's religions. And the impact and wait in government that the technology industry is able to establish often is larger than the impact a single government state actor could have.

00;18;37;07 - 00;18;58;25

Lisa Thee

So I think it's time to slow down a little bit and be a little bit reflective and come together. You had an amazing career journey in terms of being able to see it from both sides. Can you share what inspired you to make the transition from being a leader in government to a leader in tech and and where your thoughts are going in the future?

00;18;58;28 - 00;19;20;25

Courtney Gregoire

Yeah, I wish someone could help me think that through. Lisa Let's be perfectly honest. That seems to be in a needed consultant, but I'll give you some thoughts, which is the first one that I've always and I try to tell to friends who are like, you know, leaving doors open and is really has been an important part of my career.

00;19;20;25 - 00;19;55;00

Courtney Gregoire

I mean, I think I reflect on when I look at what I want to do, I want to figure out, can I make an impact, Can I make a change that I view is creating a better world for my children, for their children? And that's really what motivates me. And I think what it has meant for my career is, is being a generalist, if that makes sense, as opposed to a specialist in one field of law, of of taking an opportunity and acknowledging where is the where's the impact you can make in this space.

00;19;55;00 - 00;20;34;22

Courtney Gregoire

And so it actually has been a journey. And each job, you know, I think this happens to every one of us. You come in and I will admit I have the tendency to let me get a lay of the land, understand how this place works, so I can then chart my path to making an impact. And over the time I've learned, oh my goodness, bringing that outside perspective in whether it was going from, you know, straight out of law school and you're a young person to a law firm, from that law firm to Capitol Hill, from that Capitol Hill job to the White House and the administration, and then to a private tech company.

00;20;34;24 - 00;20;54;15

Courtney Gregoire

Don't sit back too long like your lived experience. Your professional experience from that last job has a role here to play. And the value add you'll have is how to integrate that early. So I think that would be thematically what has helped me and and then the whole conversation we've just had is what really motivates me right now.

00;20;54;18 - 00;21;26;10

Courtney Gregoire

I say we're talking about a real challenge about creating what do we want out of technology? What do we as society want out of technology are the questions to tackle. And I think you have to have people thinking those hard questions at every sector of society. And one of the most important things that animates the work I get to do is the only way you can do that is to really listen to users and those that use your products and do thoughtful research to understand.

00;21;26;13 - 00;21;48;01

Courtney Gregoire

It's not the edict of one individual, one executive at a tech platform. It's not even going to be one elected official who gets to define for us what is what do we want out of technology. We got to acknowledge the tensions and build in those listening systems, real listening systems. So me be clear about that if we want to build the future that we want.

00;21;48;04 - 00;22;16;21

Courtney Gregoire

So that's kind of what animates me and it does mean leaving that door open to say, Where's the next place you could make an impact? And you mentioned one of those. I was really proud to serve as a commissioner for the Port of Seattle for seven years. And Lisa, it's one of those perfect examples. You know, yes, I'd had some experience in international trade and yes, I knew from an environmental perspective what I wanted to encourage, how we were going to tackle climate change when it comes to the supply chain of ports.

00;22;16;23 - 00;22;35;29

Courtney Gregoire  

Never did I think, you know that my experience working on an immigration bill on Capitol Hill would come front and center when President Trump signed an overnight executive order banning people from entering the United States from defined countries and have the opportunity to put in a practice just because I happened to be at the right place at the right time.

00;22;35;29 - 00;23;03;09

Courtney Gregoire

But it's a good reminder Almost everyone's lived experience brings a different perspective. I love working in places where you actually open all of that up and and have a it a culture that lets people really express their whole selves and make sure that your team is learning from others experiences.  

00;23;03;12 - 00;23;30;20

Lisa Thee

Curti I love that you brought up that example because coincidentally, Courtney, I think we've met each other one time in real life, right? Yeah. Okay. Over the course of a year of knowing each other for about five years and the day that we I don't know if you remember this, but the day that we met for a glass of wine in Seattle when I was in town, you were running a bit late. And when you arrived, you shared that you were late because the travel ban edict had just gone into effect and so you just drove straight to the airport and found someone being detained and decided to be their lawyer.

00;23;30;23 - 00;23;50;27

Courtney Gregoire

Does that ring a bell? Well, the situation but I forgot the timing here, Lisa, if that makes some sense. And I, I can share with you I think what it probably was was a follow up from that very, very intense, intense period of time. I mean, this is part of my brain because it was so I woke up on a Saturday morning and you have children.

00;23;50;27 - 00;24;09;17

Courtney Gregoire

I have young children. So thankfully, I woke up at like 5 a.m. and was just perusing the news to see that overnight, you know, President Trump had issued this executive order and the impacts were already being felt on the airports on the East Coast. And I just got my car started driving, picked up the phone and called former U.S. attorneys.

00;24;09;17 - 00;24;33;13

Courtney Gregoire

And can you meet me down here, picked up our phone and called Northwest Immigrant Rights Project and said, I need your caseworkers here on the ground. And over the course of the day, started learning about loved ones who were showing up at the airport to try to pick up their loved one who had been detained and were not being allowed to, quote unquote, enter the United States.

00;24;33;16 - 00;24;50;17

Courtney Gregoire

And so they said, you know, the ripple effects can happen multiple days. But that day I remain very proud. It's because of understanding the function of the airport, having a little bit of legal background. I didn't I couldn't be the lawyer. I was port commissioner or bricklayer. So I had some other people to that that role. But I did file an affidavit for sure.

00;24;50;20 - 00;25;07;27

Courtney Gregoire

We're the only airport in America that actually got three individuals released that day to enable them to just to be perfect to complete their travels. They they boarded a plane with lawful papers to enter into the United States. I want to be clear about what I'm talking about, but one of them was trying to return home to their family in Tacoma, Washington.

00;25;07;27 - 00;25;37;11

Courtney Gregoire

Another one was trying to go to an architecture and infrastructure conference in Las Vegas because he was going to be helping build the World Cup infrastructure for the next. And so, you know, talk about a moment of saying, oh, you know what I do? I remember working through these immigration issues back in the day, working in a similar office, but yet the ripple effects because people kept boarding planes and then being, you know, having a horrible experience when they landed in the United States.

00;25;37;14 - 00;26;06;07

Lisa Thee

I really, really appreciate your clarifying my understanding as a reformed engineer here and entrepreneur, the law is often a little bit of a mystery to me. So thank you for clarifying your role in that. But what it really cemented in me and in having that experience and watching you navigate through that was just your commitment to impact your bias for action and your marriage to your own internal compass of integrity and what's right. And I've always really kept that close to me when I think of you.

00;26;06;12 - 00;26;35;23

Courtney Gregoire  

I thank you. Lisa. I will say it's interesting to think about that was not without controversy the actions I took that day. And, you know, in every organization there were people who just have the instinct to be quiet. We don't want to be on the front page, you know, So the of Seattle really play a role in this was was the question of some people if that makes some sense.

00;26;35;23 - 00;26;59;06

Lisa Thee

And and I respect that I mean we we need you know that moderation that push pull in any organization. But I do think I feel best and true to myself when you know you're operating on your your your compass and you're speaking the truth. Right. I'm not going to do this speaking truth to power because I want everyone to realize they have power and I want them to then speak the truth.

00;26;59;08 - 00;27;31;29

Lisa Thee

That moment helps me do that. And then it's a culture that I hope any team I get to build in any organization, I hope they can walk that too. I think you're you're well on your way for that. And I think history will look favorably back on that, that situation on your behalf. So, Courtney, in order to influence large groups of people, which is part of your day job every day as an executive at Microsoft, how are you using data and technology to accomplish moving the company in the right direction?

00;27;32;01 - 00;27;51;25

Courtney Gregoire

Well, that's a great question, and it should have been on the top of any of my explanations given. I work in a tech company. I do think what you just ask is, is not just how tech companies think about things right now. I really value you think about leadership decisions that are being made. People ask, well, where where's the data?

00;27;51;28 - 00;28;23;15

Courtney Gregoire

Show me the pattern. Right? And I will say it happens in our world every single day. This morning I was woken up a little too early because we have a specific case that is raising questions for Microsoft to handle. And it's it's that push pull in any organization where expediency says, let's go remedy this for one experience or one person, and you want to make sure that you have the framework to say, how many people are having this experience, How are we solving this systematically?

00;28;23;15 - 00;28;54;03

Courtney Gregoire

So in our space, honestly, particularly in digital safety, as I talk about how threats are evolving, we want to get really, really good and leverage data to get get better insights as to how products and services can be misused and abused. And that gives us the insights to build, iterate. And that's, I think, the important piece. Nothing in the safety world is about putting one tool in place ten years ago and saying, Great, we've got this.

00;28;54;06 - 00;29;19;19

Courtney Gregoire

It's got to be constantly evolving and informed by data. So I think one of the earliest hires I made on my team was a data analyst. Brett brought the person over from a customer experience space. And I remember the interview because he was absolutely the right candidate and said, I have like minimal training, data analytics. I've been a product manager right across the suite.

00;29;19;19 - 00;29;46;04

Courtney Gregoire

I'm like, I want both of those disciplines to inform how you start bringing insights and light up what data should mean to our teams making these critical decisions. I think that you're highly matrixed right? So most of the people that have the the second key and the two key system for making changes to products and services that we all use every day are are more bias from the product side, right?

00;29;46;04 - 00;30;04;03

Lisa Thee

So you're looking at it from more of a legal and operations framework and they're looking at it more from a technology and engineering point of view. And so being able to find something that can merge those worlds is incredibly important to drive true change, correct?  

00;30;04;05 - 00;30;32;11

Courtney Gregoire

That. Very well said, Lisa. And then I got to be honest to you, you got an engineering background. This is a liberal arts lawyer over here, Right. What is helpful to talk about how you leverage data? And I encourage folks to think about this. I mean, if you plop an Excel spreadsheet in front of me, I am probably not going to be able to make a good analytical decision out of it. You know what what data analytics today is and this is the discipline that I like and making sure our team has is light up data so that any discipline can read this and say, how do I get insights and where do I go?

00;30;32;13 - 00;30;58;16

Courtney Gregoire

So the role that, you know, Power BI plays in how we think about the amount of content being detected across our services, the amount of customer appeals that we're seeing in this digital safety space, lighting it up and then enabling the liberal arts person to ask questions and say show me that in a in a in a meaningful way, I think is really changing that the game.

00;30;58;18 - 00;31;26;03

Lisa Thee

And and and as these be perfectly frank as we get better about this, we'll make sure that anyone from their background and discipline can contribute to the conversation and be grounded in data. So I see that journey as so critically important. I couldn't agree more. Have you seen your business strategy have it to pivot in light of the pandemic and and what impacts were you surprised by?

00;31;26;06 - 00;31;50;06

Courtney Gregoire

You know, you say business strategy. And the first thing I can't help but think of is how is my team doing in light of the pandemic? So the first thing I will say to you is, you know, people obviously think monolithically, normally if you're a tech worker, you can obviously work from home. And clearly we have people working on critical infrastructure who are in the office.

00;31;50;08 - 00;32;10;00

Courtney Gregoire  

But even in our digital safety space, you know, the first thing as we all went home was a real honest conversation about the human wellness impact of people reviewing content, terrorism, beheading videos. Honestly, let's use the right language, child rape videos. I want them in the office. I want them in a place that we have thought about wellness.

00;32;10;02 - 00;32;43;08

Courtney Gregoire

I don't want them in their home. And so we made sure that they were characterized as essential workers and had the opportunity to make sure that they could create that appropriate distance from their work. Then my team and I probably the best way to put it is been growing because of the digital safety issues. So looking and reflecting that our team members, a majority of whom joined in the stay at home order and haven't met each other in person, it's really an interesting cultural moment and I think a lot of people are wrestling with this.

00;32;43;08 - 00;33;05;26

Courtney Gregoire

How do I build all of the team culture moments that are so important in this new environment? So that's really, really been top of mind. I reason I say that is because I think I should end with of course, technology has played an even more critical role in our lives, and I think there's two ways that we've been trying to do it.

00;33;05;28 - 00;33;29;29

Courtney Gregoire

You, you know, you see the use of what we're on right now, a Zoom call exploding. You see people leveraging technology who previously hadn't. We got a couple that up with education about how to keep oneself safe online. And so I'm proud of some investments we basically made on public safety announcements. You know, you're staying home to stay safe.

00;33;30;05 - 00;33;54;21

Courtney Gregoire

Here's how to stay safe online. Here's how to think about the safety implications. This is an education moment. If we don't lose it, that has been really, really, really important. That is critically important because what I've seen from the data is that crimes against children online are doing nothing but escalating from that 69 million number that we saw pre-pandemic, correct?

00;33;54;24 - 00;34;17;07

Courtney Gregoire

That's right. Exactly. So I think it's probably worth noting for the numbers in Europe for the first three weeks of this year, because of a change in a privacy regulation that saw their child reporting dip, 46% in the first weeks of January 1st three weeks of January, which we know is not because the content is not there, is because a change in European privacy law.

00;34;17;09 - 00;34;46;11

Lisa Thee

So I'm sorry to bring it back home, but that one has been at rudely in our face as we think about the intersection of privacy and safety. If our listeners are interested in learning more about it, you can reference our episode with Dr. Hany Farid, where he talks in more detail about how the technology works since he was part of creating photo DNA and he also talks about how lightweight the tool is in the same way that you would scan for malware.

00;34;46;11 - 00;35;14;09

Lisa Thee

In case you want to understand a little bit better. Courtney, are there any places where people can be submitting community feedback to regulators in Europe to help them understand the urgency of this issue? If people are passionate about contributing yet?

00;35;14;12 - 00;35;34;01

Courtney Gregoire

So I won't say I'm most proud. We we worked at the National Center for Missing Exploited Children. They created a little microsite to that that hosts exactly those of us as platforms who leaned into the risk and continue to provide updates on this information. Lisa, forgive me. I wish I could give you rattle off the URL, but we'll make sure we attach it. But w w Nick McCormick As you look for the European privacy implications, they have been doing a great job explaining this situation. The National Center for Missing Exploited Children. Thank you. And I believe it's missing kids dot org is your website.

00;35;34;03 - 00;36;03;29

Lisa Thee

Good one. So Courtney, you've done a lot over your career. What achievement are you most proud of?

00;36;04;01 - 00;36;29;06

Courtney Gregoire

Oh my. I can't say surviving, although we know that's a miracle to, you know, the mom and me didn't here in your career and said, it's my kids, but so I want to be clear. And then I said, okay, you said in my career I don't lie. And I did that intentionally. Thank you. So I, I one thing I often reflect on, and if I was sitting in my office, it would be right behind my head. It's probably more about the way I'm proud of how I've worked. So I was very proud to serve President Obama and the director of the National Export Initiative at the U.S. Department of Commerce when he said he wanted to double U.S. exports over five years.

00;36;29;06 - 00;36;50;21

Courtney Gregoire

I knew what that would mean for the livelihoods of small businesses across the United States. So I'm sitting at the Department of Commerce. I get to lead this team, and I'll never forget the first meeting in which these these, you know, amazing government service servants who've been doing this work for years look at me. And I'm like, Oh, great, You know, here we go, political appointee.

00;36;50;24 - 00;37;14;08

Courtney Gregoire

Great to have you here. And I did that job and was really proud of it for about two and a half years. And I took the approach. Listen, I am not the most knowledgeable on the subject. Those who have been thinking about our trade policy in India for sustainable materials for years or who I want to light up and I want to bring their work to the forefront.

00;37;14;11 - 00;37;47;01

Courtney Gregoire

And that's how I took my approach. It's about being a leader that makes sure that those can really let their work shine. And I focused on that. My entire time. So my proudest I'll call it thing from my work right now is the U.S. Department of Commerce SEAL that is signed by several hundred employees of the Department of Commerce because they they hosted a goodbye party and then they came and acknowledged this is the most career people who have ever been in a political goodbye.

00;37;47;03 - 00;38;10;24

Courtney Gregoire

And I say that because I hope it was a reflection that I really did focus on. It's their work. It's not mine. I'm here temporarily. And the way you make change in an organization is to understand the organization and the future of it. It's not about me. So that's probably one of my proudest artifacts of my career. Not not necessarily an accomplishment.

00;38;10;27 - 00;38;27;02

Lisa Thee

Okay. And in my experience, I learn a lot more from my failures than my successes. Do you mind sharing one of your bigger failures with us and how you navigated through it?

00;38;27;04 - 00;39;02;26

Courtney Gregoire

You know, I will say I take it I take myself back to D.C. and it probably was it the collapse of a comprehensive immigration bill. And I say that to say I, I at the time thought of it as a personal failure. And I let my the impact it had on me physically be treated as if it was a personal failure when in reality, you know, obviously probably to all of your listeners, how could one individual think as a staffer they were responsible for the failure of a comprehensive immigration bill.

00;39;02;29 - 00;39;32;05

Courtney Gregoire

And so what I acknowledge from that is honestly, one of the challenges for me was to acknowledge what's what's your role and your impact. And and there's this little Post-it note sitting over here on my screen right now, Lisa, that starts with the focus on what you can control, because that's the lesson I learned from that experience when I took it to personally and believed it was a personal failure when I really needed to take some lessons learned about what I could control and what I could influence and what I could make an impact of.

00;39;32;12 - 00;40;02;23

Courtney Gregoire

And I can resonate with that so strongly. That really makes me think back to 2017, when we were both jointly working on disrupting human trafficking amongst different corporations and we lost some funding in that process. And you here's me working on a morphine drip in the hospital, because you take that sense of responsibility for preventing this crime to a level that's probably not sustainable.

00;40;02;26 - 00;40;29;00

Courtney Gregoire

Right yet that hit it It's exactly right. And when you say what did you learn from it? I was thinking about the team meeting I called after the the the horrible attack on our Capitol on January 6th. I called our team together to say, I know you're this weight heavier because you focus on online safety day in, day out, and can't take this as a personal you can't forget a figure.

00;40;29;03 - 00;40;49;20

Courtney Gregoire

So that's the lesson that I carry forward, because there were moments that, you know, those incredibly dedicated to their their their professional life, you know, that collapse could really change the trajectory for them. How do you make sure you've got the safeguards and you're having an open dialog about what you can control? Yeah, very important. And often needs a reminder.

00;40;49;20 - 00;41;06;20

Lisa Thee

In my case, I'm sure. Here's to something a post-it note as a great best known method for all of us. You know, Courtney, we've had an opportunity to collaborate as launch consulting with Microsoft's Digital Safety Office. Do you mind talking a little bit about why you chose to bring in some consultants and what benefits you saw from doing that?

00;41;06;22 - 00;41;31;04

Courtney Gregoire

Yeah, and you know, it's a great that's a great way to think about it. My my instinct was, particularly when you are starting a new team and in my case, I was starting a new team with people who were experts and very experienced in this field. You know, you want to make sure you're building in some scaffolding to get the best thinking from each of those individuals without them.

00;41;31;07 - 00;41;55;23

Courtney Gregoire

You know, thinking about this is about my individual contribution, my career. And I see ability to build I call scaffolding, but at least a different, different infrastructure to make sure you're giving people the space. You know, you are delivering impact day in day out. That's your job. Now, here is the time and space to make sure we are building for the future and we are doing the planning and we are building that in.

00;41;55;26 - 00;42;22;21

Courtney Gregoire

And, you know, it's hard as a individual, as your manager or the leader of the organization, I'm making sure you delivered what you said you would deliver this quarter. And if that meeting happens, then you say, Now let's move to the big picture. I get people to jump to the right mindset for that experience. And so I will say bringing in some consulting help, being honest about myself, that making that pivot is even hard.

00;42;22;21 - 00;43;01;17

Courtney Gregoire

As a leader, I want to deliver what we need to by the end of today. Friday, January 29th. Did I leave enough space to be thinking about where we should be a year, three years from now, and how can I make sure there is a constant infrastructure to build that space was my hope when we when we really brought in some consultants and in my view, the best, the best role and the way that I saw launch approached this is they were building in the scaffolding the tools to make sure that that could be part of their culture and ecosystem going forward doesn't have to be a you know, it is intentionally a surgical consultancy,

00;43;01;20 - 00;43;24;11

Courtney Gregoire

but that's when you know there's value. Okay, let's make sure that this rhythm doesn't lose sight of the need to look long term and not just deliver short term. So it really helps you to enhance the focus on, the strategy for the longer term vision. While you were building the tactical execution that was very intentionally needed during this challenging time.

00;43;24;13 - 00;43;48;23

Courtney Gregoire

It's exactly right. And Lisa, then there's the also the critical part for our work. It's the connectivity between different workstreams. My my team focuses on how do we advocate appropriate whole of society solutions to these problems, and that's engaging with governments and civil society. How do we ensure internally we've got a law and policy team thinking about implementation and then operations?

00;43;48;23 - 00;44;08;16

Courtney Gregoire

Who's really delivering day in, day out? You've got to make sure they're thinking across those ecosystems and and providing the space to do that. So that has been an added significant added help. We really enjoy being the honeybee to cross-pollinate the most important ideas. So I think that's a good one. Great, a great way to end on that.

00;44;08;16 - 00;44;28;15

Lisa Thee

So, Courtney, we learned so much from you today. I think I can speak for everyone that we are in and on and honor of the service that your team provides to the global community as we aspire to get to those higher social fabric goals of being good to each other. Where can people find you and keep tabs on what you're working on?

00;44;28;17 - 00;44;59;01

Courtney Gregoire

Sure. So I'm getting better at using that LinkedIn thing and we do share a lot of the work. And so I would encourage honestly, that's a great way to do it, including one of the great things we launched just this month. I guess it is our new digital Council for Good. And so we've asked young people to come and work with us directly for 18 months, giving feedback on how they use technology and how we create a future for digital good.

00;44;59;04 - 00;45;22;27

Lisa Thee

So you'll see more up there. Please feel free to connect. Thank you so much for your time today. Courtney Thank you. Have a great one. Hey, everyone. Thanks for listening to the Navigating Forward podcast. We'd love to hear from you. At a crossroads of uncertainty and opportunity, how do you navigate forward? We'll see you next time.

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