Mick is a successful, battle-tested political operative turned entrepreneur and business coach. Shortly after receiving his master’s degree from George Washington University, Mr. McKeown worked for a local 501(c)3 before joining the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). At DHS, Mr. McKeown’s assertive approaches and his passion for social advocacy earned him the role of Executive Director of the Homeland Security Advisory Council and Campaign Office. In this role, he became a leading international voice supporting the efforts of the private and public sectors to end human trafficking. Working extensively with both Congress and the executive branch to help end trafficking, Mr. McKeown created the BeCyberSmart campaign and oversaw the rebranding of the “If you See Something, Say Something” campaign.
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Narrator
At a crossroads of uncertainty and opportunity. How do you navigate forward? This podcast focuses on making smart choices in a rapidly changing world. We investigate the challenges of being at a crossroads and finding the opportunities that arise out of disruption. Listen in on future forward conversations with the brightest luminaries, movers and shakers. Let's navigate forward together and create what's next.
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Lisa Thee
Hello, everyone, and welcome to Navigating Forward podcast. My name is Lisa Thee. I'll be your host today. And one of my favorite things to do is to find experts around the world that are helping to make things easier for all of us. One of those people is Mick McKeown. Mick is the owner of Anovia Consulting and he leads business owners through the process of demystifying how to get government contracts to win more business and help them accelerate.
00;00;51;18 - 00;01;14;11
Lisa Thee
So thank you so much for joining us today, Mick. Thanks so much for having me, Lisa. So Mick, tell me a little bit about your background. How did you get into this business of understanding what's going on in government contracting and why are you uniquely qualified to help people through that process?
00;01;14;13 - 00;01;44;11
Mick McKeown
Sure. So I am a recovering bureaucrat, as you may may know. I work at both the state, local and federal levels. When I was in state government, I had the opportunity to be on the expanding side of government contracts. I worked as the contract manager. We did everything from, you know, acquiring pencils to building parking garages. And it was an absolute fiasco some days. But it was also really interesting to see how the government wants to purchase and do the right thing and make sure they do in the most fair way.
00;01;44;17 - 00;02;10;20
Mick McKeown
When I moved over to the federal government for a period of time, I learned the importance of, you know, dotting the I's and crossing your T's to make sure that a federal contract can work. And since I came out of that spot, I've helped clients acquire over $60 million worth of contracts. Just kind of knowing what to say, when to say, and looking for the right value that they can bring to the table for for the government itself. And because there's just so many different things that people need to do. And, you know, that's kind of where my focus has been for the last two years.
00;02;10;20 - 00;02;28;25
Lisa Thee
I think that's a wonderful. So you've really lived in the trenches of being the thunder, and now you're helping the people that are seeking funding to align with what the needs of the government are and their unique ways that they can deliver services.
00;02;28;28 - 00;02;53;23
Mick McKeown
Right. Because the government needs to hear from your vendors any way you know, there's a reason why Deloitte and Baker, Tilly and Boeing and all these other different places are the ones that you always hear all the time, because they're the only ones going in for the bid. Now, granted, if you're looking to create a space satellite that has, you know, massive destruction capabilities, I would prefer to go with the Boeing than, you know, something that's going out with somebody.
00;02;53;23 - 00;03;17;10
Mick McKeown
Spaceman and Lisa TheWrap.com. Yes. You know what? Let's just say you want to go for a small term marketing contract. You know, that's a different story. So there's definitely I think that the the what happens with a lot of people in that space is that they say, oh, I applied for this one RFP, I didn't get it. I'm never going into the space again and absolutely forgot it.
00;03;17;10 - 00;03;46;03
Mick McKeown
And it's just like, that's just such a ludicrous thing. It's like going into the real estate business and saying, Someone didn't take my offer. I'm not going to show another house. That's a really good way to put it, because I think that a lot of people find the request for proposal process daunting. It typically takes a lot of time to put your thoughts on to paper to submit, and I think a lot of people do get turned off if they don't have instant success that way, because they feel like sometimes the juice just isn't worth the squeeze.
00;03;46;03 - 00;04;10;28
Mick McKeown
And you're here to help educate us all that. That's not at all the case, right? Yeah, I mean, it's exactly the the point. I, I think what happens is, is that there's no strategy with these small businesses on how to do it. So what they look to do is I'm a marketing company or I'm a widget company or I'm a soap company, and I'm going to try and sell this product or service just the entirety of the effect the federal government.
00;04;11;00 - 00;04;31;15
Mick McKeown
So I might do it one or two little spots and it doesn't work my way. Then it's like, forget it, you know, it's all a big scam. It's all because it's like, No, why don't you just pick like if you were doing anything right? We have a unique selling proposition, you know, you're not looking to if you're once again using the real estate thing, you know, if you're just trying to sell a house to anybody, you might hit a couple of successes.
00;04;31;15 - 00;04;51;29
Mick McKeown
But when you're starting out on anything, you have that unique selling proposition and a full focused customer. Who are you trying to sell? So I'm trying to sell to veterans who are returning from overseas, looking to be first time homebuyers, moving out of rentals and looking to move into these seven zip codes in Prince William County, in Prince George County, or something like that.
00;04;52;00 - 00;05;17;10
Mick McKeown
Okay. Well, there you go. That's a good target market. But if you're doing government contracting, you're going to just be like, oh, I'll see what the government produces. It's like, no, why don't you see what agency that you could work with and develop a relationship there and make some money? Like it's just s to me is just seems to be, you know, so ludicrous that people will go and be like, hey, you know, I'm trying to break into the auto business.
00;05;17;10 - 00;05;37;16
Mick McKeown
I sold something to Ford. They didn't like what I had to say. So then I took it over to Kia and they didn't like what I have to say. And it's like when you go to GM, they got 17 different brands. You could go talk to.
00;05;37;23 - 00;06;00;03
Lisa Thee
Yeah, I love that Mick. And trying to sell to somebody without a strategy is going into the category of even a blind squirrel finds out that sometimes we are in a waste of a lot of time, right? Mm hmm. Absolutely. And yeah, so that's where you help bring a little bit of intuition on the playing field of what are the right matches and the right fits. And that's where you come in to add value to your customers, correct?
00;06;00;05 - 00;06;18;02
Mick McKeown
Yeah, that's where I value. And the other thing I try and add value on to is just to, you know, look at it as not a 90 day sprint, but look at it is more is like nine months, you know, like long hustle. You know, if you're going like, here's the deal. Why do people want government contracts? Because they're large. They pay on time, they pay every month and the check clears. So if you're going to think you're going to get that in 30 to 45 minutes, it's just it's just not the way to think about it. But if you're like, hey, these are the things I'm going to do.
00;06;18;02 - 00;06;33;27
Mick McKeown
And if you look at every time you respond to a proposal as, you know, a learning experience, like what could I do better? Like, there's no reason why you can't pick up the phone, call the contracting officer and say, Hey, if you were me, what would you have done differently to have made this more of a winning bid?
00;06;33;29 - 00;06;52;14
Mick McKeown
And sometimes I'll tell you, it was your price that you were way too high. Or other times it would be like I had someone tell me the other day I was totally, absolutely perfect for this fit and I didn't get it. And I was like, Well, what was the proposal about? There were they were looking for someone to produce infographics for the Coast Guard.
00;06;52;19 - 00;07;15;27
Mick McKeown
Well, that's cool. I said, Why didn't you get it? Will I never explicitly said that. I know how to create an infographic. Oh. Oh, boy. Could you imagine being the contracting officer picking that? I mean, look, they can do a TV commercial. I'm assuming they probably can do an infographic. Or do you go to Joe's infographics dot com?
00;07;15;29 - 00;07;42;17
Mick McKeown
You know what? Well, and in addition to that, do I really trust somebody that's not going to explicitly tell me they're qualified to do an education campaign for me. Exactly. So yeah, that's the kind of stuff that it's like, you know, we got to really kind of set sit down and work on. And I think that if people kind of look at it from the perspective of like, look, the federal government has $1,000,000,000,000 to spend between today and the end of 2021.
00;07;42;19 - 00;08;04;20
Mick McKeown
What? That's an insane number. It is. It's it's insane number. I mean, like like it's it's pretty much like the GDP of every Soviet bloc nation. So it's it's $1,000,000,000,000 they're going to spend. And under the next administration, these small business set aside, they're going to go from 5 to 15%. So you are a slow burn or small business. You have the opportunity to get 15% of $1,000,000,000,000. I don't understand the thing about I'm really liking these odds. Yeah. Really liking them a lot.
00;08;04;20 - 00;08;22;12
Lisa Thee
You know, you've had an amazing career journey in public service. Can you share a little bit about what inspired you to start on that journey and how you rose to be a leader in that field?
00;08;22;13 - 00;08;46;23
Mick McKeown
Sure. So let's go all the way back to the early 1980s and let's set the tone for your millennial audience. This is when phones were connected to places, not to people, and that, you know, the idea of social media was riding your bike and seeing who was home. I lived in a I don't know what you call it, kind of mixed family.
00;08;46;26 - 00;09;14;02
Mick McKeown
And maybe it was a mixed family where I had my grandparents and my parents under the same roof, multigenerational, multi-generational. There we go, multigenerational households. So it was my mom, my dad, my grandma, my granddad and me. My brother and sister just had arrived. I'm eight and ten years older than that, so it's all of us. Here we are, beautiful little house, Northeast Philadelphia and I'm a 12 year old little boy whose best friend is his grandfather.
00;09;14;05 - 00;09;41;03
Mick McKeown
And anyway, so my grandfather passes on October 14th, 1992, and I can still remember every moment of that day. So I'm trying to process grief and doing all the stuff as a 12 year old. And it's it's a normal life thing to happen. And the local committee person came over on October 18th, 17th and said to me, like, Hey, why don't you come out?
00;09;41;03 - 00;10;04;18
Mick McKeown
I'm going to pay you a couple dollars and we're going to knock on some doors. So we're going to go do this political campaign thing. My grandmother, my mother really pushed me to go do it. So I go do it. And we knock on a few doors. And I realized after, like the third or fourth door knock, the way the guy was introducing me was, Hey, this is Mike McEwen, the judge's grandson.
00;10;04;21 - 00;10;22;22
Mick McKeown
And I got to hear from an entire community the impact that my grandfather had on their life and all the good stories and things that he did for them. But I never would have heard and never be a part of. So then, as we're finishing that up, he has his wake in. That's an Irish wake, right? My name is Mick McKeown.
00;10;22;22 - 00;10;37;24
Mick McKeown
His name was Joe Murphy. 5000 people showed up to his funeral. Wow. So, yeah, So I got to see the impact one person can have. There's never going to be a statue to my grandfather. There's never going to be a court ruling that people are going to go, Oh, my God, Murphy versus somebody. There's never going to be that.
00;10;37;24 - 00;11;00;05
Mick McKeown
But it was going to be at least two, if not three generations who can remember how a man made them feel? And I was like, that is something that I want to be a part of. And so I went into it and I worked on a ton of political campaigns, and I try to always get that feeling. And you know, I had hits and misses, don't we all, you know?
00;11;00;07 - 00;11;26;24
Mick McKeown
But that's always been kind of the pursuit to be the person. And I kind of found that like, I think that I hate the word pivot, especially in today's environment, but you would not enjoyed the entrepreneurial circles I submerged for myself. So many of these small. Small is the new big. We got to pivot. We would do job fairs.
00;11;26;24 - 00;12;08;10
Mick McKeown
This is quick and dirty like, oh, stop. I think that what my little pivot is, though, in all sincerity, is taking the bureaucratic methodology and the the idea of the archaic bureaucracy and bringing it to the small business class. And I think that's kind of like, hey, this is something that you have the opportunity to know. You're something that because it the bottom line is, is that if you're in a business person in the United States of America, there's no reason why you shouldn't be selling to your government, you know, and and utilizing the fully, Hey, man, you paid into this, you know, like like take the advantage of it.
00;12;08;13 - 00;12;30;24
Mick McKeown
And I think that, you know, fairness to the governments as well is that they want to they want to engage in that with the business community. So I kind of see that as like my role as I kind of like ventured out of it. So, I mean, like, hopefully that kind of gives you the idea of like, you know, where the why you do it right.
00;12;30;27 - 00;12;52;15
Mick McKeown
What what, what inspires and motivates you. And I think we all can pay homage to a testament of a life well lived when 5000 people come out to honor you. Very. It's not a bad gig, you know. Not No, not at all. Yes. I mean, like, it was funny then. That was 1982. My grandmother passed away in 2008 and she still had like 1100 people show up because you know what? Like, he educated everybody. So it's kind of funny how these things go.
00;12;52;15 - 00;13;25;19
Lisa Thee
Before pivoting into consulting, what achievement were you most proud of and what are some of the more important takeaways you could share?
00;13;25;22 - 00;13;47;29
Mick McKeown
So I mean, I think it was it was funny. So, you know, I worked a in the Trump administration and one of the my favorite conversations I ever had was I was sitting down for one of my first big meetings, and one of the guys told me from the State Department that he went to Harvard. And I was like, That's so weird because I went to Holy Family University and here we are at the same table, you know, how crazy is that? They both start with an H. Yeah, it all started with an H. I mean, you know, one one's in Massachusetts and one's off the Grand Avenue exit of 1995, but whatever, six one half dozen the other.
00;13;48;01 - 00;14;06;20
Mick McKeown
Where'd you go? Small liberal arts college in Boston. How about you? Small liberal arts college in Northeast Philadelphia. But the thing is, is that what I learned at Holy Family and I don't know if I learned this from my parents, if I learned this from my city in Philadelphia. I just don't know what I learned. It's like a bunch of bad decisions from the ages of 12 to 24.
00;14;06;27 - 00;14;25;06
Mick McKeown
But I learned the idea and the importance of grit and the when I sat down and I did my first major meeting, it was there was a such an intimidation there. And I think the way I responded to that intimidation was firing right back at them to kind of be like, I'm as like almost as a defense mechanism.
00;14;25;08 - 00;14;46;21
Mick McKeown
So when I got my big opportunity general then secretary John Kelly said to me, Look, here's the deal. If you want to take something over, we need you to do this. And there's a bill that needs to be passed in Congress for you to be successful. Oh, you know, just a little detail. Okay. So, you know, there was you know, I think that, you know, you got to put yourself in a position to win.
00;14;46;21 - 00;15;09;09
Mick McKeown
And, you know, I always I always can't stand the people who say, oh, well, you know, my weaknesses, my big is like my best strength or whatever, you know, like all that type of stuff. You know, I think shadow false modesty. Yes. Like, I have no idea how the at this point in my career what I'm supposed to do to be convincing on the legislative front.
00;15;09;09 - 00;15;30;16
Mick McKeown
But I do know is I know people and I do know the importance of showing up at their door consistently and letting them know I'm not going away and, you know, moving through the whole deal. So I went and I, I think I went to the Hill 200 times for that bill. Wow. What was the bill about? Oh, ah, funny you should ask there.
00;15;30;16 - 00;16;11;28
Mick McKeown
Lisa So it was the Blue Campaign Authorization Act and it was a bill to codify the office of the Blue campaign, which is the voice for those in the human trafficking for Department of Homeland Security. So it's the it's the the bill the whole entire purpose was to make sure that there was an office that would represent people and the community that could, you know, address the needs of the of human trafficking so that we could educate law enforcement, have a victim centered approach and, you know, pretty much create an office that is able to help every district in the United States, you know, eradicate it.
00;16;12;00 - 00;16;30;00
Mick McKeown
And it was one of those things where I kind of like look back into that little 12 year old boy. I was like, this is the thing that you can do to make the difference. There's obviously much smarter people in the space. There's obviously other people who can, you know, take the work that we did and really grow upon it.
00;16;30;00 - 00;16;53;08
Mick McKeown
But I was at the right place at the right time. And I mean, having the ability to go knock on those doors, meet those people. And I think the thing is that when people kind of forget and this is the same mentality I kind of talk about in my consulting work is that once the door opens, I think there's a setting of people of false modesty where it's like, Oh, I'll do anything.
00;16;53;08 - 00;17;13;23
Mick McKeown
But then it's like, Will you do anything? Because I met with the intern for lunch. Yes. Yeah. Like I was like I had a brown bag lunch every Wednesday on the hill for over over 300 interns. And they said, What can we do? And no one was talking to the interns. So every time the member came in, the intern would be like, or Where are we on the blue campaign bill?
00;17;13;25 - 00;17;37;13
Mick McKeown
But I don't know where I am. What the hell's the blue campaign? Bill And that bill went from it was that languished for seven years and we got it passed in eight months. What year was that? It was 2018. It wouldn't get passed 115th Congress. It languished in committee. I got it out of committee. We got it. I mean, when I say I that's that's some B.S. because there was like a lot of great people involved in that.
00;17;37;16 - 00;18;00;22
Mick McKeown
One person is this guy Anthony Ochoa and Caitlin Seale. And Anthony was somebody who will you want about consistent? It's a guy who showed up for seven years waiting for political leadership to push it through. And then Chairman McCaul out of Texas like really got help us get the ball rolling and we ended up meeting everybody. The best part about it, though, the best part about it, that was not a single person voted against it in the House.
00;18;00;25 - 00;18;18;16
Mick McKeown
A single person voted against it in the Senate and the president signed it into law. I had that bill hanging up in my office today. And the cool thing is it went from like 12 pages to nine paragraphs. All it needed to do was what it was set out to do. And if we pass more legislation like that, a lot more would probably get done in the United States.
00;18;18;19 - 00;18;39;20
Lisa Thee
It is so refreshing to hear in an age of division that we are able to all come together and say abolishing modern day slavery is a priority for all of us. So thank you for your leadership in that space. Mick.
00;18;39;22 - 00;19;11;16
Mick McKeown
Well, you're welcome, and thank you. I think when, of course, parts of that, too, was how every single it was. And you're in the space, you know, every single person who is remotely touched by it thinks that their their area, their hometown is the hut the hut for it. Every person I interact with and our first intro meeting is like, so explain to me that whatever given town is the hotbed, it's like I'm like, okay, I'm not. I'm glad everybody believe it because there is not enough resources, there is not enough attention, there is not enough conversation around.
00;19;11;16 - 00;19;36;11
Mick McKeown
That's horrific crime. So I want everybody to believe they live in the hotbed of it. So they're activated. My my favorite part of my intros would be I would always say, like, you know, people would introduce me and they would say, like, you know, and one of the things that Mr. McKeown's is going to talk about today is that, you know, you can be a victim of human trafficking without ever having to leave your hometown, which is true.
00;19;36;14 - 00;19;54;10
Mick McKeown
Absolutely. And then they would say, we're so excited to have Mr. McEwan here in Hot Springs, Arkansas, right at the intersections of 84 and I 19. You know, I'm going to tell you how you don't even need to leave Hot Springs, guys, and you're going to give us that. You're like, in the middle of a trucker's paradise. Okay, I'm going to go with it. Sure. Let's do it. So, yeah, that was kind of like my other fun little aspect of the job as well.
00;19;54;10 - 00;20;15;16
Lisa Thee
Yeah. And obviously you've had a huge impact with that campaign. I back in the days when we could actually travel, I don't think I ever went through an airport without seeing the see something say something campaign. I mean, it really caught everyone's attention and and seeing it with them. And that was part of the blue campaign you were leading, correct?
00;20;15;16 - 00;20;45;24
Mick McKeown
Yes, I ran the blue campaign. The if you see something, say something campaign, I did the A, B, cyber Smart campaign, which was I mean, that was super fun because we were like we kind of took like a play on a flow from progressive and stuff like that and like Geico and like, made it like, hey, like mom and dad, don't give out your internet password.
00;20;45;26 - 00;21;07;18
Lisa Thee
So we've all been impacted by the pandemic. What impacts have you seen in your and how you go to market with your business as a result? How you adjusted to the the new world we're all working in?
00;21;07;21 - 00;21;32;11
Mick McKeown
Yeah. So well it's funny because I am starting to travel slightly again. Once again following in on some of this work. But I think that the best pivots that you can do are here's the, here's the big three one. I don't I don't think it's a big deal to say no to Zoom calls when it's all one on one. If you know somebody, I don't think I think the better pivot for you to do there, the better movement is to go to a regular phone call because it's a Groundhog's Day in every single day.
00;21;32;12 - 00;21;56;08
Mick McKeown
And if you can't go to the grocery store, you can't do, you know, you know, get your oil change or whatever it is that you're supposed to do. And you have to be sitting on a Zoom call all day. I don't see the opportunity for you actually to be successful. The amount of meetings we have about nothing. And I think that if you think there's this weird acceptance or commitment also I just want to say this.
00;21;56;10 - 00;22;18;01
Mick McKeown
I think we've peaked zoomed. You know, I mean, like I think that like we went from, oh, we're figuring this out. Okay. Like, I want make sure my bed's made like me, you know, like, okay, like this is my thing. And like, we hit that peak zoom level, and now it's like the steady decline of the zoom age and it's like, I think people are like, it's the zoom zoom fatigue to show real.
00;22;18;03 - 00;22;45;15
Mick McKeown
And there's certain people I don't need to see, you know, like and there's certain times where I don't need to be seen. Exactly. And it's, you know, I've tried multiple different levels of marketing and outreach and things like that. And I think that if, you know, you're you're doing the Zoom stuff, that's one thing. The secondary thing, too, is I think you need to be more engaging on LinkedIn in this environment right now.
00;22;45;22 - 00;23;09;10
Mick McKeown
I think that, you know, I think that people have this weird seediness about them on LinkedIn. I don't recall where we met. We knew things people knew were the scene and you live around the corner from me. This isn't Facebook. I don't care about your cat. I'm trying to make some money. I looks like you are too. And then don't expect me to share your resume when you're out of a job.
00;23;09;10 - 00;23;27;24
Mick McKeown
Now pick up the connection. Request and let's move. You know, So that's me on that aspect of it. So I think that, you know, you have to be careful what you do on Zoom. I would kind of I would kind of try and move as many things I can to a voice. Only people use only model secondary thing.
00;23;27;24 - 00;23;51;26
Mick McKeown
I'm doing the LinkedIn thing. And the third thing I do is I would be consistent in how I communicate. And one of the things that I find specifically with my team is that we use Slack, we use email, we use text messaging. Whenever you're talking about something, know where you can go because you're having a substantive conversation on it or about it and know that that's where it is either for some of my client proposal work that it's done strictly via email.
00;23;51;26 - 00;24;20;29
Mick McKeown
We have an email chain that I can for that's the client at any time. If it's working inside my consulting firm, we try and do that on Slack and if there's just like B.S., like, Hey, I'm running a few minutes late, as you know, for this thing. I just text. But if you kind of are having these conversations are getting more in depth, have the I don't know if courage is the right word, but you say, hey, we need to move this over to whatever venue we usually use for said things like that.
00;24;21;02 - 00;24;42;24
Lisa Thee
So for companies that are technology forward and data focused, what are some of your recommendations for accomplishing their goals of working with the government? Where does government need that kind of support?
00;24;42;26 - 00;25;09;14
Mick McKeown
So there isn't a agency in the federal government that doesn't need what modern day technology is offering, especially with these firms that are have the data focus. I think there's a couple of things, A I think you need to focus in on one or two at the max three agencies at a time. And you know, there's different ways that you can skin that cat. And I would I would focus in on that. Second, I would go on more of a listening tour. And if you focus in on certain and this is a big mistake, a lot of you'll make, is that it's the federal government.
00;25;09;14 - 00;25;31;18
Mick McKeown
The federal government right now should be buying, you know, certain things for COVID related, but they're like five years behind buying stuff that they need. So don't necessarily worry too much about, Oh, I have this thing. They need it right now. We're going to be buying COVID related things for a good 5 to 10 years after this is all set to done.
00;25;31;21 - 00;25;58;26
Mick McKeown
And if they if somehow someone comes up with a COVID tax that's never going away. One of my favorite little stories is that we're still paying the Johnstown flood tax. In Pennsylvania, David McCullough wrote a book on the Johnstown flood. I think we're coming up to like the 100th year anniversary of when the flood occurred. And I think I mean, I never forget, never forget, never forget the Johnstown flood.
00;25;58;28 - 00;26;22;22
Mick McKeown
It was bad. It's a really it's a fun book because everyone I audio book that. But the thing is, is if you're focusing in on the right groups for what you're offering is the first thing listening and how do you listen. Lot of these things might have a webinar or something that's backdated six months, have somebody sit down and pull some of that data of what they're talking about and what they're looking for.
00;26;22;24 - 00;26;49;20
Mick McKeown
I mean, that's so important. And the third is, is if you're going to commit to the space, commit to it, you can bring in somebody and say like, hey, this is what's going to happen. And some of the stuff you can do in smaller increments. So I think one of the things that people don't realize is that like, hey, I don't want to have I don't want to spend ten, 15, 20, $35,000 a month on somebody to go find government deals for me.
00;26;49;25 - 00;27;05;26
Mick McKeown
And then I don't know what's happening. You can bring somebody in for, you know, 60, 90, 120 days to let you know what the next three years are going to look like. And then you just kind of keep in contact with them occasionally. Like there's tons of opportunities out there. You just got to see what's what's coming forward.
00;27;05;28 - 00;27;30;06
Mick McKeown
And the other thing I think that they can really do is they have to look at the impact that they're bringing to the community specifically with, you know, having a relationship with their Congress members, the congressional members and with their senators. You know, there's no reason why you can can't do that. And there's specific members of Congress who are very interested in what your company is producing or doing.
00;27;30;08 - 00;28;00;03
Lisa Thee
You know, it's that simple. That's fantastic advice. So all the people that you're trying to influence on any given day have many different priorities that they are tasked with, ones that are personal missions for themselves. How do you keep your key priorities, your agenda, top of mind for those folks?
00;28;00;06 - 00;28;21;17
Mick McKeown
So it's funny. So what I try and do is I try to be known like I try to be known for just a very few things. So anyone that I'm bringing to market, they know that it has a social impact side to it, you know, So that that's just that's just the way I am. I mean, from the stories that you've heard me share thus far in the interview, like, I think that kind of makes sense. So when they know that I'm coming to them with a specific product or a specific company, they're like, okay, we know we're going with this.
00;28;21;17 - 00;28;46;11
Mick McKeown
We know it's your brand. Yeah, So fine, That's that's great. And then I think the other and that's with like, you know, those higher end clients but when it's with this middle of the road type of people and stuff that we're just trying to kind of figure out if there's an avenue there. I think when people see me, they know that there is a relationship behind us that they like to continue to invest in.
00;28;46;14 - 00;29;14;18
Mick McKeown
And I think that's kind of lost in a lot of people, especially in towns like DC. I kind of feel like probably Silicon Valley is this way as well, where, I mean, we you and I, have mutual contacts and friends where it's like your value is always as good as your network. And then you're going the next day and it's like, well, no, the thing is specifically in a place like DC that's so not only transactional, but it's transient that there is a like there's people want to hold on to those beacons of lightness and those steady places that are going to be there.
00;29;14;18 - 00;29;36;29
Mick McKeown
And that's what I try and be. And so when they know like, okay with Mick being there, you know, this is a person worth investing in or this person worth kind of getting to know. And I think that's really kind of the key thing because there's a lot of opportunity for people to take in a meeting or to take something knowing that on the back end this will be, you know, really important to them long term.
00;29;36;29 - 00;29;59;05
Mick McKeown
And the last one is, is and I feel like I talk so much about the last one is you're a guest on a podcast. This is what you need to do. Yeah. I mean like but the other one is, is that you know I think that people and for me particularly, I think that the easiest thing for me to do is to be able to know that I'm genuinely trying to connect with them.
00;29;59;07 - 00;30;24;05
Mick McKeown
And so that when you genuinely remember things that are going on and you see things that really, you know, kind of resonates with with everybody, I think it's like, you know, I kind of come from an age where, you know, the Internet and all that stuff was just kind of being born. So you still had the sticky guys like, you know, you know, how you doing their sport?
00;30;24;05 - 00;30;47;03
Mick McKeown
How's the pitch? Normally played baseball. And so, you know, like kind of think, you know, get away from that. But if you can remember that stupid things but just like the minor things and that's the same things that you kind of go on, you know, that's great. Like every time it really helps people feel seen. Right? And I think we all have that desire to feel seen.
00;30;47;06 - 00;31;22;10
Mick McKeown
Oh, my God. Yeah. Like, what was it? You know, I would go into a I would go into I would go into a certain New Jersey congressman's office, and his scheduler would sit by the front door and she went to Michigan State, which I'm sorry that happened to her as a wolverine myself. Right. So anyway, I was with somebody who decided that, didn't realize and had no business ever discussing sports.
00;31;22;18 - 00;31;51;23
Mick McKeown
One of our tech friends. And he and he decided that he was going to say go blue. And that for those that are not from Michigan, that is the ultimate gaffe. Yeah. So I was I looked at him and I and the thankfully the member came out and he was in New Jersey but suburban Philadelphia member and he was like, that's as if you're bringing a Cowboys fan to, you know, to my office.
00;31;51;23 - 00;32;12;09
Mick McKeown
As an Eagles fan, I was like, Oh, sorry, sir, we're going to go do it from there. But the thing is, that scheduler has moved on multiple times since that meeting. And every time I see her, I always say, Hey, go blue. And she's like, Oh, don't you do it. And but it's just remembering that moment of when you're 22, you're horrified in the new job.
00;32;12;09 - 00;32;35;02
Mick McKeown
And then somebody is like, You don't know if this person's important enough to tell them to go shut up or, you know, or it's just to sit here and take it and to be the guy who remembers it and embraces it. And it's, as she said, that story, a dumb story. And the fact that I remind people of it is helped her kind of go up to be a legislative director now.
00;32;35;05 - 00;32;54;10
Mick McKeown
I love that. Yeah. And I really want to double down on that service mindset. You're always looking for the opportunities to give not because you're expecting something back, but because true leadership happens when you put goodwill into the community and then people rise free for you when there's things that are important that maybe aren't getting as much airtime as they need to be.
00;32;54;10 - 00;33;12;20
Mick McKeown
Right? Yeah. And I think the other thing is, too, is that like for me on a personal level as a guy, that the big thing that I like to do is kind of be like that. That guy, that big brother, that father figure for the other people, kind of coming up the ranks and being like, hey, like talk to this guy or hey, you know, do this.
00;33;12;20 - 00;33;30;02
Mick McKeown
I can't be I don't know if the word is like empathetic is the right word for it, but I mean, I don't understand, obviously, the female perspective on a lot of things. But I do know that like, hey, this is somebody that you should talk to and this is somebody that you can talk to and and helping them navigate that way.
00;33;30;02 - 00;33;58;14
Mick McKeown
And I think that that's kind of been like super, super helpful to me, especially specifically in, you know, my work in DHS, because the idea is, is that if you don't have enough diverse backgrounds and people, you're just always going to get the same results and working in the space, it can't just be the same people doing the same thing, you know, not not to take down $150 billion international criminal empire.
00;33;58;14 - 00;34;29;02
Mick McKeown
It cannot be no gaps. Yeah, there you go. And so, I mean, that, I have to say, is like the thing too, is that like one of the coolest aspects of what I've been able to see. And I think one of the things that I really like and it's finally happened to me is that when I do, whether it's a sales call or presentation, you know, a pitch, I'll always ask like, Hey, do you mind if I bring someone in in an inevitable?
00;34;29;05 - 00;34;42;22
Mick McKeown
It's going to be someone from my team, most likely a female, and she'll be sitting in and have this learning experience. And the coolest thing has been to see people reciprocate that with me. Like make I know we have this call schedule. Do you mind? We're going to bring in an intern, we're going to bring in this person.
00;34;42;24 - 00;35;15;21
Mick McKeown
And I was like, Oh, that's fantastic. And for anyone listening to this, my greatest achievement professionally was the Blue Campaign Authorization Act being passed. I solely put that act being able to be passed because 190 some odd interns showed up to lunches that I had. I will always make time for an intern or someone just starting out for their career because their incessant bothering is what made me have my most successful moment.
00;35;15;28 - 00;35;19;21
Mick McKeown
And I'll be forever grateful for that.
00;35;19;23 - 00;35;45;00
Lisa Thee
Words to Live by, Mick. I mean like being able to bundle that unbridled enthusiasm for somebody that hasn't been there, done that so many times that they've lost the heart for it. I find it so re-energizing you get more back than you give for sure. Well, the thing is, though, is that like it's it's you. The one of the things that I find so interesting and so kind of disappointing at a time is that these kids come down into D.C. and they want to go do this great work.
00;35;45;03 - 00;36;06;06
Mick McKeown
And they're like, oh, like I want to do this great work that, you know, I want to make sure that I help create the missile defense system, you know, like, okay, so I'm like, I get that. But look, you're going to be here for four months. Why don't you kind of look at what the rain water runoff is going to be doing because no one else is touching that for, you know, the Dust Bowl communities.
00;36;06;06 - 00;36;23;19
Mick McKeown
It might not be the most interesting thing, but it's a start. And I think that the kids who kind of focus in on those things are the ones that are like, oh, my gosh, like, this is definitely really boring on one hand on the subject matter, but on the other hand the process that goes behind it and how to do it.
00;36;23;21 - 00;36;41;10
Mick McKeown
I'm really super engaged and I think that it's kind of like, you know, you got it, whatever you make it. And the kids who like dig in or claw their way up, just just a lot of respect for that. Like, you know, pulling that together, it goes back to that superpower you talked about earlier, which is really grit.
00;36;41;10 - 00;37;04;15
Mick McKeown
Right. Being able to get get in it and find something about it you can find interesting to build that muscle. Oh, absolutely. I think it's like also like it's it's it's funny, too. Is that like I was specifically with this next this generation coming up now they're so unnecessarily hard on themselves. I know everyone likes to just like, you know, pile on negative criticism.
00;37;04;18 - 00;37;24;17
Mick McKeown
But the thing is, is that like they have they're so unbelievably hard on themselves because they don't understand, in my opinion, at least they don't understand that, you know, the journey isn't going to produce the results you expect it's going to be. When you look back from where you showed up every day for three years of where you are.
00;37;24;19 - 00;37;43;13
Mick McKeown
And I think that they're like, oh, you know, this this Instagram influencer is there because, honey, she talked to 3000 people a day for two years to get 500 followers, you know, So it's kind of like if you're like the and I'm not saying that they're not willing to do that work. I'm saying I don't think they see that side of the work.
00;37;43;16 - 00;38;05;03
Mick McKeown
Well, I think a lot of people do these very curated images of how they get where they got. And most of the things don't make the highlight film. And I think we've all kind of fallen into that trap of thinking that it's not accessible to us. And I actually don't blame them at all as a generation. No blaming them, but it's just more like it's like it's there, man.
00;38;05;03 - 00;38;22;25
Mick McKeown
Like like I think a lot of them need to know that, like, it's okay to ask. It's okay to kind of like it's okay to fail. I mean, not only is it okay to fail, I mean, I failed out of that, right? Yeah, I got like, I don't know about you, but I felt like a couple of colleges.
00;38;22;25 - 00;39;02;03
Mick McKeown
I dropped down a few more. Oh, I was like, Oh, Sister Francesca only should be named as a saint for taking me at Holy Family University. But that idea, it's only family, though I ended up getting to GW to get my master's degree and. And then like. And then from there I left my bureaucratic position. I took the chance and I'll tell you something, you know, when you're, you know, in your early thirties and you have a mouth to feed, like there is no other terror than, you know, what am I going to do to, you know, I took a 30% pay cut and went somewhere that was 30% more expensive to live.
00;39;02;03 - 00;39;19;15
Mick McKeown
You figure that one out and, you know, not a math major. Yeah, neither am I. I'm a I'm a talker. And but, I mean, we didn't really notice anything. And I think the reason why we didn't notice anything is math wasn't our strong suit. But, you know, the the idea then was that you get that opportunity and you make something of it.
00;39;19;15 - 00;39;42;02
Mick McKeown
And I see these kids coming up now and there's the ideas. They pitch you are so in depth. It was like you're like, Oh my goodness, there's so much opportunity here. And then it's just like it's just like, hold, hold fast. On the encouragement. And that's the only thing that I think is my other little spiels that you'll get into the room where it happens.
00;39;42;02 - 00;40;12;07
Lisa Thee
It takes a little bit, but you'll get there. So Mick, I think that one of the biggest challenges of our time today is our identity politics and our lack of ability to come together. Absolutely. In a time where this has been a crisis, you have helped everybody rise above and come together for a greater good. What are your pieces of advice for us regular people in the public to help drive more unity versus division as we are moving through, closing out this really tough year for all of us?
00;40;12;14 - 00;40;39;23
Mick McKeown
Yeah, I think it has to be a search for commonality, and I think that one of the things is, is that we have to find commonality and we also have to find that area of where, you know, our lives might not necessarily be the same, but they resonate. And I think, you know, one of the things that it's always been help me to be successful is that I'm able to, you know, connect with multiple different groups.
00;40;39;23 - 00;41;07;15
Mick McKeown
Do that. Do I understand some of the other issues facing these different populations and these constituencies know? But if I can be able to be able to know that I'm willing to relate on these levels and they're willing to relate to me on those levels, that gives us a better opportunity to at least have a discussion. I think the other thing is to is that if we're not willing to listen to each other, then I don't know how we can fix some of the things that were going on.
00;41;07;15 - 00;41;33;00
Mick McKeown
And I feel like we're going to start seeing a little bit more listening because people are willing to stand up in different ways to their party. And I know that there's people listening right now who are like throwing things at their car radio and screaming the incessant lies that we're talking about. But it's actually, I think you can see you can see minor adjustments on both ends of people speaking out.
00;41;33;02 - 00;41;47;26
Mick McKeown
And the problem is, is that you can speak out all you want, but if you've nothing to kind of act upon it, if there's no call to action and I mean, I think that we have to expect these politicians to figure out a little bit of time, you know, further call to actions and what it is that they're trying to to produce.
00;41;47;26 - 00;42;09;10
Mick McKeown
So, I mean, I think that we're going that way. And my big hope for this new administration is that they're really, really, really, really boring. And we get a hard reset as a nation and they just fix some internal processes, things that we as a nation need that we won't necessarily understand. But we'll see in six, eight, ten years.
00;42;09;10 - 00;42;31;21
Mick McKeown
You're like, Oh my gosh, look what happened here. I think that's kind of what we're doing and we need and it's going to be interesting to see how that plays out. Does that answer your question, Lisa?
00;42;31;22 - 00;42;52;26
Lisa Thee
I think it does, Mark. What I really appreciate about all is having our touch points is that I know we sit on different sides of the aisle, but I know that we have enough in common that I know that you're somebody that I respect and admire. You bring a point of view that maybe I wouldn't have thought of myself. And you're probably not going to change my mind holistically on how I see things, But I'm going to have a much better empathy for why somebody would look at it differently. And I'm going to be much more open minded to listen to somebody that doesn't align on all of my views so that I can continue to learn and grow and evolve.
00;42;52;26 - 00;43;12;15
Mick McKeown
And if we can't listen to each other, I don't think there's any space for that to happen. Right. Right. I think one of the things is, though, too, is that I think if you go into an argument thinking that you're going to convince someone that you're going to change their mind on something, you're inevitably going to lose. You already lost before you started.
00;43;12;15 - 00;43;43;11
Mick McKeown
Yeah. And think that one of the things the other thing is, is that as a parent, right, I haven't had to deal with this particular issue yet. I'm not sure if you've dealt with it yet, but we're on our way. You know, I feel like my seven year old is going to be 17 in a minute, no matter what she says about going to go to spring break in like Daytona Beach, there's not going to be an opportunity in my mind that she can convince me it's a good idea.
00;43;43;14 - 00;44;18;21
Mick McKeown
That being said, if she doesn't raise her voice but reinforces her argument about why she should be able to have that experience, I might be like, I think this is a horrible plan. However, I will let you go. I it all depends on what we're seeing as the achievable. And I think that a lot of people now want to focus on everybody thinking in the same mindset instead of taking what makes America so frickin fantastic, which is, you know, all these different mindsets and like, you go 50 miles and all of a sudden there's a new delicacy and a new way of thinking like, like, embrace it, man.
00;44;18;21 - 00;44;43;22
Mick McKeown
And I think that's kind of I think we're going to be there soon again. I think that we've kind of done like this peak. I don't know what it is, but I mean, like division. Yeah, there's this division, but it's also like after after this whole takeover and all this pandemic stuff's done whenever that comes out. Like, if it mean let's let's see what this vaccine does right?
00;44;43;24 - 00;45;03;09
Lisa Thee
But I think that, you know, there's going to be a little bit more of an idea of like, okay, but God let us back outside to play again. Let's be a little bit nicer in the sandbox. Yeah, that's shared humanity. Yeah. I mean, I miss people. Oh, I look forward to a day we can actually meet in person in India.
00;45;03;09 - 00;45;21;07
Mick McKeown
Hasn't happened yet. Oh, yeah. I'm a side note. I bought a trailer is getting redone in Los Angeles. I'm going to be doing next this time next year, I'm going to be driving up the California coast. We will see each other then. So I love it. Yeah. I'm just like, screw this, I am out. I'm going to see a beach. I want to see the Pacific Ocean, and we're going to just kind of kill it.
00;45;21;07 - 00;45;42;14
Lisa Thee
I love that so big. I think you brought so many really interesting points of views to bear today. I really appreciate it for our audience that want to keep tabs on what you're working on, Where can they find you?
00;45;42;16 - 00;46;04;20
Mick McKeown
You can find me in all the normal places, my Novia, That's P and Viacom, and I think I'm most active LinkedIn. So be sure to follow us on the Nova LinkedIn page. And that's a good way to get started. Thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate it. All right. Thanks so much, Lisa.
00;46;04;22 - 00;46;07;24
Lisa Thee
Hey, everyone. Thanks for listening to the Navigating Career podcast. We'd love to hear from you. At a crossroads of uncertainty and opportunity. How do you navigate forward? We'll see you next time.